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tv   The Last Word With Lawrence O Donnell  MSNBC  October 16, 2014 7:00pm-8:01pm PDT

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grenade it was until they had it out of the guy's leg. the guy himself didn't know that. iraq and afghanistan veterans sometimes lament that the skill set they develop out on the battlefield is not a skill set they appreciate back home, potentially by potential employers. in alabama right now, i think that worry is inoperable. bravery. theme of the day. now it's time for "the last word" with lawrence o'donnell. good evening, lawrence. >> wow, rachel. what a collection of heroes. just amazing. >> amazing stuff. thanks, man. >> tonight for the first time, we are seeing and hearing from the dallas, texas, nurse who contracted ebola while caring for her patient. her video thank you from her texas recovery room is next. >> ebola is not new although it's new to the u.s. >> demanding answers. the nation's top health experts are on capitol hill. >> the head of the cdc will be
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testifying on capital hill. >> he will be testifying there. >> there are more than 5,000 hospitals in this country. there are more than 2,500 health departments. >> this is the quo people are asking, why are you allowing folks to come here. >> is the white house considering a travel ban? >> i can't speak to the white house. >> there's some suggestion that the patient's dog be infected. can the virus be transmitted by dogs. we have no restrictions on travel of human beings. how about the dogs? don't you think we ought to at least restrict travel dogs. >> when you're talking about a travel ban, you're talking about a very aggressive government action. >> ebola doesn't care about that. >> screening and self-reporting in airports have been a demonstrated failure. >> we have screening reports in washington, newark as well as atlanta hartsfield.
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>> travelers will have their temperatures taken. >> the fight against ebola in this country is intensifying. >> cdc works 24/7 to protect americans. there are no short cuts. everyone has to do their part. >> we have new video inside the hospital of a nurse who contracted ebola while caring for thomas duncan. she's on the way to maryland. when she lands, she'll be taken to the national institutes of health for further treatment. before she left texas presbyterian hospital in dallas a few hours ago, her doctor recorded this conversation in her room.
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. >> she says she followed all the protocols while treating thomas eric duncan and is trusting her doctors and nurses at emery hospital in atlanta. between 1976 when ebola was
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discovered and 2013, there were 20 ebola outbreaks and all of those combined killed a total of 1,548 people. this year, ebola has killed more than 4,500 people. almost 9,000 have been diagnosed. almost all of the cases of ebola have been in three west african nations, liberia, sierra leone and new guinea. there have been two cases in the united states, one in germany, and one in spain. today in madrid, a man on an air france flight who had traveled from west africa to spain was rushed to the city's best hospital suffering from a fever and chills. he is being tested for ebola. the nation of jamaica today imposed an immediate travel ban on people who have traveled through the three ebola infected countries. and today, a u.s. house subcommittee considered the idea.
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>> my recommendations based on what occurred in this hearing, i believe we need an immediate ban on commercial nonessential travel from new guinea, liberia, and sierra leone. >> we need a plan to stop the spread of this disease, this includes travel restrictions or bans from that region beginning today. >> sealing people off in africa is not going to keep them from traveling. they're traveling to brussels as one of the people did and then into the united states. >> why from a medical standpoint you have concluded that a total travel ban is inappropriate and not effective. >> tonight, broem said this about a travel ban. >> if we put a travel ban in now, history shows there's a likelihood of increased avoid dan
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dance. people don't readily disclose information. they break up their trip so they can hide the fact that they've been to one of these countries where there's a disease in place. and as a result, we may end up getting less information about who has the disease. they're less likely to get treated properly, screened properly, quarantined properly. and as a consequence, we could end up having more cases rather than less. if they come back to me and they say there's some additional things we need to do, i assure you, we will do it. and it is currently the judgment of all those who have been involved that a flat-out travel ban is not the best way to go. >> many of those coming from africa to the u.s. are americans.
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>> dr. chew, first of all, to the issue of the day, which is a question of some sort of travel ban, what is your position on that? >> i believe that a tral ban, the issue of the travel ban is a very complicated issue. there isn't a clear answer as to what may be right. certainly instituting a travel ban may have the negative effect of kind of impeding the flow of greatly needed resources, personnel to west africa. and also, it is something to the said that having a travel ban potentially may make it more difficult to track patients that are coming, or individuals that are coming from west africa with ebola virus infection. so this must be balanced against the need to protect americans, and whether or not a travel ban will indeed protect americans is still in question. >> and as a variety of possible travel bans, you could just shut off absolutely all traffic, but
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then possibly leave a window open for american citizens to return to the united states. there's a bunch of variations that are possible here. >> if you do cut off travel in any way, not only do you create the problems the president was talking about, people coming underground, still trying to get to the united states or other parts of the world, but you will also slow down which is most important, which is the flow of health workers, the flow of health materials. what we really need to get into these infected countries to slow down this outbreak. if we can't do that, then we'll just be fighting this essentially forever. we need people, we need material, and if you slow down travel, you're going to make it that much more difficult. >> there's still confusion when people listen to all the evidence and listen to all the testimony today at the hearing, people are still wondering, how could these nurses have gotten infected?
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>> that's a good question. as the hospital and administrators have admitted we still don't know how they became infected. to but it was clear that it's possible the hospital was inadequately prepared. in fairness, they are really the ground zero for the initial infection, the first case of ebola being treated by a hospital that wasn't specifically prepared to manage or take care of ebola patients. the other thing that needs to be taken into account is there were some differences in the way the personal protection equipment or protective gear were put on or taken off. this is something that needs to be done in extremely meticulous fashion to avoid inadvertently becoming infected from contaminated material. and i think there's a third aspect of it, which was remarked upon, was that certain invasive
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procedures such as dialysis, such as respiratory sintubation these are not typically done in africa. these could have put the nurses at risk. the fact that two health care workers became infected doesn't fundamentally change the virus and how it's transmitted. >> let's listen to what one nurse hads to say. >> you already said you don't believe this is airborne and yet there again, i know how nurses are, i was one for 21 years before coming to congress. you're protecting yourself, you're protecting your patient, you're protecting your family. they followed precautions, i am sure. >> we are confident that this is not airborne transmission. these nurses were working very hard. they were working with a patient
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who was very ill, who was having lots of vomiting, lots of diarrhea. there was a lot of infectious material. and the investigation is ongoing, but we immediately implemented a series of measures to increase the level of safety. >> brian, there we are going backwards in the dialogue. talking about, is it air born. something that people who have come on this program said with absolute assurance in the last several weeks, absolutely not airborne. there's no chance it's airborne. but it seems to me the infection of the nurses is what is making people reconsider everything because they, even with these small possible vulnerabilities in their protective gear, they still were highly protected. and people have been sitting here saying, ebola is hard to catch. >> it is hard to catch. clearly something went wrong. it's very concerning to have the head of the centers of disease control saying we really don't know how this happened. clearly there was a mistake, a
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gap somewhere along the way. and it seems wrong, which i keep hearing, is that some people almost blaming these nurses for making a mistake or being responsible for this in some way. that's not really fair at all. it takes a lot of practice to do this. you can't really just be trained in this level of infection control in a week, in a day. what doctors without borders does is really a very, very finely tuned machine. and that's something they've done for years. it's not really reasonable to expect -- >> how long do they take training a nurse for working with doctors without borders. >> it takes weeks. you have to be trained at the brussels headquarters. and also there's a buddy system, which isn't always the case here. in the u.s., really the reality is simply that the cdc had said any hospital can do this. that's not really the case, as we're finding out. what do you do with the waste? a million other things that didn't really come up until we're dealing with a number of patients. it's not nearly as easy as we
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would have thought. >> do you feel ready in san francisco? do you think san francisco hospitals are now on this alert that everyone has been getting through the media, do you think they're more ready now to deal with this if a patient were to show up there? >> i think that every hospital across the country has now become acutely aware of this and indeed of the threat that ebola can present. i think that every hospital has to become prepared. has to be prepared that potentially patients with infected with ebola can end up in emergency room or urnt care clin ecks at any hospital in the country. our hospitals are implementing measures and taking into account kind of the recently cdc recommendatio recommendations, or modifications on how to address patients with ebola virus infection. >> thank you both for joining me tonight. coming up, cecile richards and her reaction to the senate campaign debate last night about personhood. it is the must-see debate moment
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of the week. and bill o'reilly and john stewart have a little debate about white privilege on the eve of a weekend movie opening of the film titled "dear white people." and i know you think congress is bad, but wait until you hear how bad congress thinks congress is. ♪ i thought it'd be bigger. ♪ ♪ (dad) there's nothing i can't reach in my subaru. (vo) introducing the all-new subaru outback. love. it's what makes a subaru,a subaru. (receptionist) gunderman group is growing. getting in a groove. growth is gratifying. goal is to grow. gotta get greater growth. i just talked to ups. they got expert advise, special discounts,
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>> a moderator shows how to ask a question when a politician is in denial. that's the campaign highlight of the week, and it's next. i love having a free checked bag. with my united mileageplus explorer card.
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republican cory gardner supported a statewide personhood amendment that would give a fetus the same rights as a person. after gardner was elected to the house of representatives, he co-sponsored the life at conception act in 2013. shortly after cory gardner entered the colorado senate race against incumbent senator mark udall he said he had a change of heart and could no longer support personhood at the state level. however, since that announcement, he said he will continue to support the federal life at conception act, a bill he continues to claim is not a personhood bill. just life at conception. in last night's colorado senate debate, moderator kyle clark pressed him on that. >> you continue to deny the
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federal life at conception act which you sponsor is a personhood bill to end abortion and we are not going to debate that here tonight because it's a fact. your co-sponsors say so, your opponents say so, and independent fact checkers say so. so let's instead talk about what this entire episode may say about your judgment more broadly. it would seem that a charitable interpretation would be that you have a difficult time admitting when you're wrong and a less charitable interpretation is that you're not telling us the truth. which is it? ? >> i do not support the personhood amendment. the bill you're referring to is simply a statement that i support life. but let me just repeat the words of senator udall. >> why does no one else think that? that's what we' getting at. >> i answered that question multiple times. >> i'm aware of that. >> the "post" called senator udall obnoxious, focused on one single issue. the fact is the people of colorado deserve better. they deserve more than a single issue that senator udall is attempting to give them.
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>> believe you, me, we're going to talk about that, but what i'm asking you about here is what appears to be the willing suspension of the facts. people who agree with you on the issue of life think you're wrong about how you're describing the bill. everybody seems to have a cohesive idea of what this is with the exception of you. what should voters glean from that. >> there are people who agree with my opinion on life. there are people who don't. i support life. i voted for exceptions, but the fact is that the bill you're talking about is a statement that i support life. now i've answered this question multiple times. but i'll repeat the words of senator udall who said when he changed his position on the issue of gay marriage that a good faith change of position should be considered a virtue not a vice. that's not my words, those are the words from senator udall. >> and you remain on the bill, the idea of personhood is conferring the rights of normal human beings on the unborn. that's what the bill says. >> again, i support life and that's a statement i support
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life. >> joining me now is cecile richards, director of planned pare parenthood. cecile, we all support life. but we do not all support the notion that life begins at conception, which is what that argument was all about. >> absolutely. i think this is a very disturbing debate in that, not only that cory gardner does support and is co-sponsoring this national life of conception act but now he would try to deny that fact. obviously the moderator got to that. this is a bill, as has been described, that is so extreme it would completely outlaw legal abortion in this country. it would threaten some forms of birth control and even in vitro fertilization. it's an idea so extreme it's been defeated handley by the voters in colorado twice. and even in the state of mississippi, the voters voted it
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down. so i feel like cory gardner is not being straightforward with the colorado voters about where he stands on this, which is a very extreme point of view. >> let's listen to how the republican candidate handled this question in iowa. >> you supported a personhood amendment to the iowa constitution. i'm interested in how far you would be willing to go in terms of federal personhood legislation. >> i do belief in protecting life, and i believe most iowans do believe in protecting life, and so i will continue to stand by that. however, if you look at any sort of amendment at the federal level, amendments are -- they come together through consensus. honestly, we don't have a consensus. >> so there she is saying yeah, i'm all for it, but i don't think it will pass right now. >> the fact of the matter is, lawrence, these are issues that
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are going to be voted on undoubtedly in the next congress. when you look at the record, looking back even at cory gardner, in one of the first votes he took in the house of representatives was to end women's ability to get cancer screening and birth control at planned parenthood. so it's not just personhood. he has a record. joni ernst, she's going to have the opportunity to vote on these issues. and for anyone who thinks this is simply a theoretical issue, look what's happened in the state of texas. these kinds of bills, these kinds of measures that eliminate women's access to family planning, to preventive care and to safe and legal abortion, this is happening across the country. so it really does matter who's elected to the united states senate. >> they really seem to be playing a kind of hide the ball game here. because obviously they get huge energy out of the right wing of their party and support out of the right wing of their party by
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saying what they want to hear about life beginning at conception. but then they try to pretend that this is really just a talking point, it's not really a legislative ambition. >> absolutely. i think that's what we've been saying. we are 100% nonpartisan. we support anyone who supports women's access to health care. that's why this is so disturbing is to see candidates who aren't proudly running on their record. they are actually trying to confuse voters and mislead them about what their true positions are. >> cecile richards, thank you very much for joining us tonight. >> thanks, lawrence. >> coming up, last night, bill o'reilly and john stewart had a big argument about white privilege. but the important part, the part that not very many people noticed is the part that they actually agreed on. and in the "rewrite" tonight, why pakistan's first winner of the nobel peace prize cannot
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so here's my point. so we've come to agreement. you admit that white privilege exists, and while it's not an excuse, it is a reality. >> it doesn't exist to any extent where individuals are kept back because of their color or promoted because of their color. look, you and i are lucky guys. we made it, we worked hard. it's not because we're white!
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>> wait. >> you think i'm sitting here because i'm white? what are you, a moron? i'm sitting here because i'm obnoxious, not because i'm white. >> in the "spotlight" tonight, dear white people. that's the name of a new film that comes out tomorrow and takes on topics like white privilege and affirmative action. >> dear white people. the minimum requirement of black friends need to not seem racist has just been raised to two. sorry, but your weed mantei roan does not count. dear white people, please stop touching my hair. does this look like a petting zoo to you? dating a black person to piss off your parents is a form of racism. black people can't be racist. racism describes a system of disadvantaged based on race. >> you got no idea what they see when they see you. >> you've got a thing for taylor
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swift. >> you don't understand. girls like me -- >> have to pick a side. >> did somebody say milado? >> how would you feel if someone started a dear black people? >> no need, mass media from fox news makes it clear what white people think of us. >> your hair is so cute. is it weaved? >> weaved. it's weave. known, present tense. >> racism isn't over in america. the only people who think about it are mexicans probably. >> joining me now actress tessa thompson and the writer/director of "dear white people" justin simeon. were you for a moment tempted to entitle it dear bill o'reilly? >> it had crossed my mind, especially after seeing that clip, you know? i think, i would love for him to see it actually.
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i think he might need it. >> yeah, it sounded like it. tessa, john stn stewart took o'y through some things last night. i think it got lost in there in the big rush of words. he said for some reason yes, okay, so poor black kids have a tougher time. >> he did. >> that is the entire point. there's a lot of other words you can throw around there and they got caught and lost in a lot of other semantics. but the fact is bill o'reilly agreed with stewart's principle. >> i think about three times. he agreed with his principle. if you accept the idea of white privilege his point was then you have to accept the idea of white guilt and that's something he doesn't seem willing to do. but the two don't go hand in hand. >> it's interesting to me, someone pointed out when people wake up to racism in america, particularly in a post obama, post oprah america, they have to go through the stages of grief.
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and, you know, sometimes they stop at anger and denial. it seems like bill o'reilly is sort of bargaining in this clip. hopefully with a few more appearance, maybe he can get through depression and hopefully acceptance. >> yeah. and certainly in all of these kinds of discussions you see in our media, no matter who is participating, it's always framed from tr the white perspective on this question, which is what i love about "dear white people" and there's this endless debate in america, if you can call it a debate about affirmative action. "dear white people" handles that a little bit differently. let's look at a scene. >> on behalf of all the colored folks in the room, let me apologize to all the better qualified white students whose place we're taking up. >> no, it's fine. we're okay. this is the only dining hall you can actually get yourself some chicken and waffles.
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look, you're dear white people, right? it's funny. it's funny stuff. it really is. how have we not staffed you yet? >> oh, me? on your uninspired humor magazine? soo it's much more than a magazine sweetheart. >> what gives you clubhouse kids the right to come to our dining hall? you don't live here. >> what are you doing? >> so you can't eat here. >> chill, sam. let the man -- >> got this. >> got this. >> who are you to throw me out? >> i'm head of this house and i'm doing things my way. >> justin, that's the perspective we never get in that discussion. >> that's what i wanted to do. i wanted to attack these things from a black point of view. because so few times have we actually gotten into the complexity of american life from a black point of view. and that's what i wanted to
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offer up with this film. >> so tessa, you get the script and you start reading from page one, was it just one of those fun things all the way through and recognition of all of these things you've gone through yourself? >> absolutely. and some ideas we've seen explored but not in a very long time in film, in about 25 or 30 years. and to be approached with such a fresh voice, it felt like a new time. it felt like the perfect post obama movie, frankly. but the truth is justin has been working on getting the movie made for about eight years at this point. so it's interesting when people say it's so timely, that's kind of our nation, isn't it? it remains timely. >> it is one of those movies that -- i don't care when you release it, it's timely. >>, yeah, it's true. it's so interesting that so many topics brought in the film, it's a satire. when you write a satire, the intention is to sort of stretch the reality in the film just a little bit further than everyday life, but unfortunately our nation is really caught up, at least in the zeitgeist, in the
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public conversation, has really caught up to a lot of things going on in the movie. so it really does feel like it's a movie of today, even though i have been work on it and dealing with these things, you know, for some time. >> that's one of the things i love about the humor. you don't actually stretch the reality to get to the joke. the joke is the reality. >> it is the reality. >> i hoped somebody like bill o'reilly can see this movie. i think in a conversation about things like white privilege, evidence is not really the thing that's necessary. i think it's empathy. there's evidence on both side. you can cite oprah, you can cite asian americans which made my cringe, but whatever. i think the thing is just to be able to see the other and understand their experience and to take an honest inventory, and that's the way that we can -- >> let's look at another clip from o'reilly, just to continue to make our points here. where he didn't understand what it meant to grow up where he grew up. and it took jon stewart to point it out to him.
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let's listen to this. >> let me just ask you a question. did that upbringing leave a mark on you even today? >> of course. every upbringing leaves a mark on people. >> great. could black people live in levettown? >> not at that time, they could not. >> that, my friend, is what we call in the business, white privilege. >> and tessa, he didn't quite get that part. >> no, he didn't. well, could black people live this in the '60s? he said i'm not sure. stewart said well, i did the research. i could find one. >> the funny thing is, he could recognize the way he was brought up directly impact the his present. but at least in that moment wasn't able to realize the way other people were brought up, the other experience in america might impact them in the present, too.
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>> what does the feeling of exclusion feel like? thank you both. >> thanks for having us. >> coming up, in a remarkable investigative piece, members of congress tell "esquire" magazine what they hate about congress. and yes, they name names. kinda: we're new to the pacific northwest. the rain, the mud-babam! it's there. the outside comes in. (doorbell) it's a swiffer wetjet! oh, i love this! i could do this everyday. ewww. sunshine is overrated, now we can get messy. the setting is perfect.
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and whiten as well as a $500 professional treatment. crest whitestrips. the way to whiten. >> we have breaking news. that's the aircraft carrying nurse nina pham from texas. it's just arriving in maryland in frederick, maryland. the flight -- she's going to be transported to the national institute for health. "the rewrite" is coming up next. for those kept awake by pain the night is anything but good. introducing new aleve pm.
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in the "rewrite" tonight, blasphe blasphemy. life in pakistan is anything but peaceful for pakistan's first winner of the nobel peace prize. in fact, life in pakistan is so dangerous for malala yousafzai, who is also the youngest recipient of the nobel peace prize that she cannot actually live in pakistan anymore. she was blown to england after she was shot in the head by the pakistani taliban for what they viewed as the crime of going to school and the even worse crime of urging other girls to go to school. she won her well deserved nobel prize by being a crusader and by being a victim. she did not capture the world's attention simply by going to high school in pakistan and urging other girls to go to high school in pakistan. her crusade was unknown to the world when she was simply going to school and urging other girls to go to school. malala got the world's attention the hardest way possible, when she was shot in the head by
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religious fundamentalists whose guns win far too many religious arguments in pakistan. the crime of blasphemy in pakistan, which carries the death penalty is not the product of 21st century religious extremism. it was written into the pakistan penal code 28 years ago in 1986, and first included two possible penalties -- life in prison or death. but in 1990, the sharia court ruled that, quote, the penalty for contempt of the holy prophet is death and nothing else. today, the high court of appeals upheld a death sentence of a pakistani christian woman convicted of blasphemy of islam, the only religion that can be blasphemed according to the law in pakistan. the christian woman's blasphemy case began before malala was
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shot. it's one of the stories she uses to describe how our country was going crazy in that period that preceded the taliban's attempt on her life. malala writes, one day in november 2010, there was a news report about a christian woman who had been sentenced to death by hanging. she was a poor mother of five who picked fruit for a living in a village in punjab. one hot day she had fetched water for her fellow workers but some of them refused to drink it saying the water was unclean because she was a christian. they believed that as muslims, they would be defiled by drinking with her. one of them was her neighbor who was angry because she said her goat had damaged her water trough. they had ended up in an argument and of course, just as in our arguments at school, there were different versions of who said what. one version was that they tried to persuade abibi to convert to
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islam. she reflied that christ had tied on the cross for the sins of christians and asked what the prophet mohammed had done for muslims. one of the fruit pickers reported her to the local imam who informed the police. she spent more than a year in jail before the case went to court and she was sentenced to death. in many cases, the government never gets a chance to impose the death penalty on suspected blasphemers because as "the new york times" reports today, such allegations have frequently led to deadly vigilante attacks on the accused or their lawyers. on august 1, 2009, 40 house and a church per were burned in punjab. nine christians were burned alive. the brave muslim governor of punjab province was outraged by abibi's blasphemy conviction and
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death sentence and he publicly and loudly campaigned for her release and for at least a rewrite of the blasphemy law. some in pakistan regard lawyers who defend blasphemers in court or anyone who publicly plead for mercy for blasphemers or changes in the blasphemy laws to be guilty of blasphemy themselves. and so after a couple of weeks of protesting abibi's death sentence, he was shot at point blank range 27 times by one of his own security guards standing right beside him. the security guard smiled upon completing the assassination of the governor and surrendered to the other police officers around him. when he made his first appearance in court, he was showered with rose petals by lawyers who treated him as a hero. and the judge, who had no choice but to convict him of murder then had to flee the country.
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not far from the pakistani capital, there is now a mosque named in honor of the assassin of the governor of punjab province. but it isn't big enough for all of the worshippers who come to the friday prayers, and so the guardian reports that the mosque is building an expansion. ali hader who runs a phone store near the mosque tells "the guardi guardian" any one of us who have done the same thing. late 20th century pakistan seems to be headed in a different direction. in 1988, two years after blasphemy was written into the penal code, pakistan elected its first and only woman prime minister, the harvard educated benzir buto. but when she was making a comeback in pakistan politic, she was assassinated.
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according to a rueters report, this year has seen a record number of blasphemy cases, as well as an increasing violence against the accused. having lost this round of her appeal, abibi will now appeal her conviction to pakistan's supreme court. the assassin of the governor of punjab province continues to live comfortably as a hero in prison. it seems it will be a long time before pakistan's first winner of the nobel peace prize can live peacefully in pakistan. ♪ the design of the ford escape is clearly intended to grab your eye. ♪
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>> you're seeing live pictures
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of the aircraft that has just brought nurse nina pham to maryland where she will be brought for treatment for her -- treatment for ebola. brian walsh rejoins me here as we watch the landing of that plane. brian, we've been saying, or since this crisis coverage started that american hospitals are ready to handle ebola cases. we know how to do it. we have plenty of people on before it got to the point where american hospitals were tested on this. saying that they could do it. but the first cases we saw went directly to emery, the highly specialized location for this. and now we're seeing a major american hospital, i don't know how to interpret this. can we say giving up in texas on trying to provide the best treatment and simply saying there's a better place to go? which, let's point out, in american medicine is not unusual. there's plenty of places you can
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be, world-class institutions who say the best treatment for this is actually in new york or in minnesota and you should go there for that. >> i think this is showing that now we're going to move these patients as much as possible to these specialized institutions where the training is in place, where the beds are in place, where they'll get the best hospital care and probably more importantly, they'll pose the least danger to the health care workers who will actually be treating them. and that just wasn't the case obviously with this hospital in texas. they were clearly not prepared and, to be honest, it's not clear that any ordinary hospital wow been prepared in the same way. the problem is if we do see additional cases, there are only so many beds. >> how many are there? >> barely ten. >> they have to be isolation units. that takes up a lot of real estate. >> takes a lot of real estate, a lot of care. it's not something you can just sort of suddenly expand overnight. we're not -- i wouldn't say not
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prepared but not ready to take a very big outbreak. >> if there's ten isolation units in that facility they could use, it would seem to me that protocol probably calls for ten separate teams of treatment personnel. you wouldn't have a nurse go from doing a round of duty on patient one to the, you know, then moving over to patient two. >> i suspect not. it's a very high, intense workload really when you're dealing with these kinds of patient, especially when the symptoms are at their worst, where you have vomiting, diarrhea, a lot of waste being produced. and the risk area for health care workers is when they get fatigued, when they get tired, when they're taking off the protective equipment. you would want to in any kind of situation as much as possible, try to expose as few workers as possible to these patients when they're actually dealing with them. '. >> i'm not sure about this treatment, but in most hospitalizations, the medical personnel do not have to
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actually be in the hospital room with the patient most of the time, in fact. so there's a -- i don't know whether they're -- what the protocol for this is whether they do say we want constant observation of the patient or whether it's -- which raises the question of the of breaks for the medical personnel and how they would disrobe from all of this protective gear that they have on. how many times a day in a shift would they have to do that. >> i would imagine they would be doing it when they're done with their shift, it would also depend on how close contact you ear talking about when you're dealing with a patient. a lot of this is going to be -- especially at emery, they drilled repeatedly in these procedures. they're ready, they know. and they will do a great job. i have no doubt. the question is if you have additional cases, how prepared will you be? we don't know where the next
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case will be. it could be anywhere in the u.s., and that's where you get concern. maybe we should have moved these patients into these kinds of facility 37s but i think there was a hope that well, we'll show an ordinary hospital could do that. i think that's where we get big, that would have to happen. >> yeah, it absolutely would. i think certainly as a patient myself, i would be asking for where is the best place for me to be? >> right, this would be a the best place. numbers will eventually start to become an issue. with all hope, it will stop here. we won't get additional cases. in nigeria, which is a lot closer to west africa than the united states, they' managed to control and snuff out their outbreak. i really do hope we won't see any more beyond this, but we have to prepare for what will be obviously a worst case scenario. >> i'm wondering if after we brought the first two americans back from africa with with this
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disease and basically cured them rather quickly, first patient who arrived back, we actual lll watched him walk under his own power out of the ambulance and into emery. i wonder if that gave us too much of a sense of optimism of what's possible here. >> it's possible. they were also being treated with an experiment drug which is no longer available. when those patients came in, it's possible you look at that and you say, well, maybe this isn't as difficult to deal with as we thought. but clearly ebola is incredibly dangerous disease. and it's just as dangerous in here in the united states as it would be in africa as well. it's a very high fatality rate. i think everyone knows that now and they're very serious about that. the response to this, look at the way communities or even sort of tertiary connected to this
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disease, closing schools for a period of time, preserving people who are on a plane or someone who knew someone on a plane. that shows the level of fear and concern that comes with this disease in particular. >> we're juxtaposing video that was taken earlier today at the hospital in texas in nina pham's hospital room before she made the big journey to maryland tonight where she is still onboard the aircraft. it takes a while when these planes land because the way they attach the stretchers and lock them down is very precise. the unlocking and movement of them or getting people off the ambulances is -- off the stretchers is also a slow exercise. there are two people coming down the steps of the aircraft now. and we do not know if one of those might be nurse phram.
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but it did look as though one person was being helped down those stairs. it's


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